- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Poor Lonnie. May he cry himself to sleep on his MyPillow tonight.
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Not enough.
And yet their stock is skyrocketing, something is not right
I mean it isn’t? It spiked up in September and is flat since and is down like 15% since the beginning of the year. Could it/should it be lower? Perhaps, but it’s not skyrocketing.
If you ignore the election bump in Nov 2024 that had completely reset by Mar 2025, their stock is up 100% in a little over a year. Yes that counts as skyrocketing, considering sales and profit have plummeted over the same time frame.
/c/mademesmile
$TSLA fanbois always claim that only Tesla can sell EVs at a profit / with a huge margin (something like $10k per vehicle). Would be interested to see what kind of margin per vehicle they are making now that the tax credits are removed and it appears that much of the profit came from energy storage.
The big change is Chinese EVs coming into Canada. Tesla sales tanked after Heil Hitler but it’s only a matter of time before they enter the US. Tesla only made money for years selling carbon credits.
Those crazy margins lasted for like 2 quarters until it was revealed that one of the main ways they managed it was severely under allocating warranty. It was a neat trick, until vehicles actually started to come back with warranty claims and they realized they literally make the least reliable and most expensive to repair cars on the market. IIRC they were allocating like 1/3 of what Toyota does per-vehicle, which is absolutely insane given the kind of vehicles they make. Hence why they became insanely stingy with warranty claims, and you saw tons of in-warranty repairs being allocated to “goodwill” which is a distinctly different pool from warranty allocation.
The entire company is built on fraud and shell-games with SpaceX/Starlink/Boring Co. and Musk has straight up admitted as much. No one gives a shit and a judge literally ruled he’s allowed to do it because line go up.
I can rant for hours about all the insanely sketchy stuff they’ve done solely for a one quarter boost, and plenty of other stuff where their cost-cutting directly resulted in loss of life.
plenty of other stuff where their cost-cutting directly resulted in loss of life.
Now we know why DOGE got rid of the NTHSA.
I can rant for hours about all the insanely sketchy stuff they’ve done solely for a one quarter boost, and plenty of other stuff where their cost-cutting directly resulted in loss of life.
My favorite is how Tesla invested in Bitcoin in 2021 and started reported unrealized gains from its Bitcoin holdings in certain quarters when the price went up but then just omitted it for the next quarter when it was down. I believe that they have changed the laws regarding that now… if that matters.
Somehow stocks will go up.
It’s slid 8% over the last month. But at a 282 p/e, it could lose 90% and still be overvalued.
Tesla’s board:
hey, I know, let’s give the ketamine enthusiast who sieg heil’d a dementia-ridden psychopathic racist twice on national television a trillion dollars this year as a comp package.
The fact that it isnt completely under is unacceptable.
Stock price went from $430 to $450.
It’s been sliding all month.
try the other tabs…
…that’s 5 years lol, yeah of course it’s gone up since then
The car manufacturer is a front for the
money laundryinvestment vehicle
As well it should have. You can’t sell many vehicles to people who still remember what nazi’s were. Yet who really cares. In the aftermath of the nazi shit and dropped sales his board cronies paid him a trillion dollar bonus! CEO bonuses work both ways I guess, in this corrupt, fuck you, world.
He did not get $1T. The milestones he has to reach to see that number have already failed.
Tesla Motors is a fail, now Tesla robots are going to make a profit even though they have never revealed a working prototype?
Even if it got banked 100% it wouldn’t stop his Nazi rhetoric
And let me guess, stonk went up still?
It’s not about the companies, it’s a gamble stock, divorced from the performance of the company.
Yes, because while they had lower profits than previously, they still had higher profits than expected. This market behavior is in no way unique or limited to Tesla or “meme stocks”. If a company increases profits, but less than expected, their stock usually drop despite increased profit. It’s because value is tied to actual results vs. expected results on the short term.
Because the stock market doesn’t care about reality. It is just a bunch of rich guys trading money between each other, and they have enough to not need us.
Top 10% of people own 90% of stocks 85% of all businesses, and half the real estate.
Yeah, it just became another form of currency to them to make number go up attached to their soul of course.
Lukewarm take: all stocks are meme stocks.
Sales are down worldwide, and it’s so bad that he just announced he’s ending production on two of his product lines, the S and X series, abandoning his “SEXY” branding strategy. Now it will just be “EY.”
The stock is only staying afloat because it’s in the portfolios of so many institutional investment accounts. With each dropping earning report, the stock is going to slowly slide, and eventually those institutional investment accounts will start dropping it. Then he’s finished.
Tesla will be bankrupt in two years.
I’ve been reading that the last 5 years. It’s not a stock, it’s a cult.
I’ve been reading that the last 5 years.
And it’s finally starting to happen. They’ve never had a 46% reduction in profit before. They’ve never closed two production lines before.
This is NOT business as usual over at Tesla. I guarantee The Goblin is in a near panic right now, his Trillion dollar payday is in jeopardy.
And it’s finally starting to happen. They’ve never had a 46% reduction in profit before. They’ve never closed two production lines before.
oh no! but now they have a robot that everyone will buy 4X! Same shit, different sandwich.
Nobody is going to buy his dumb robot that won’t work. Leastways, not in numbers that would make up for automobile numbers. Otherwise, Ford and Chevy would be building robots.
Are they building robots?
They are not.
Nobody is going to buy his dumb robot that won’t work.
and nobody is buying his shit cars, trucks or semis, or solar roofs, or tunnels, or hyperloop…what is your point?
TSLA does not need to make money, it just needs the promise of making money one day.
Yes, but even then you’d expect the faltering to be reflected, just earlier. As the analysts estimate low profits you’d expect the stock to suffer a sharp decline then.
Given how overvalued Tesla is arguably in general and that the rationalization is that while it’s not the biggest and best brand now, but their growth trajectory should carry them past all the other automakers, it’s insane that they are only down 11% from their late december highs, and still showing a $1.4 trillion market cap…
It’s not a company that looks like growth nor do their current results look to justify that crazy valuation. They are valued at 3x Ford, GM, Toyota, and Honda combined, despite having more modest business results than any of them.
Yes, this local move upward on beating estimates despite a bad result is normal, but the broader trend of this stock is still anything but.
They squandered their reputation to gain political clout that seems to have evaporated and are locked into EVs in a market where that’s no longer subsidized and a great deal of EV interest is muted now and other manufacturers are able to push out compelling EV cars. You know that Musk is going to take your money and spend it how he sees fit including obscene bonuses to himself…
I just don’t understand Tesla investors at all at this point…
I just checked and of course the stock went up.
It went up in the post market yesterday (completely insane) but today it’s down again since it’s following the rest of the market. The real valuation should be around $20 though so it’s still… slightly overvalued.
I honestly don’t know how Musks companies work.
Tesla makes cars. Cars don’t sell, so profit drops. Musk uses SpaceX to buy Teslas. Tesla’s profit declines, Musk says it’s an AI company, then buys AI from his other AI company, which he funded from Tesla stock. Musk buys Twitter, twitter goes down in value. Musk buys Twitter from himself using xAI, for higher than its market value, then boasts stock gains?
So now Tesla is going to buy AI from himself, and build robots that were just pantomimed guys in suits… and somehow… profit???
I don’t know what the fuck is going on in this world. But I would absolutely love to see Tesla’s stock drop and all of this made up debt-financing fall apart like the house of cards it is. However, Musk saying “we’re making robots now” seems to have nicely papered over what should be a massive stock decline. After his last one “Tesla isn’t a car company, it’s an AI company” now it’s “Tesla isn’t an AI company, it’s a factory company”.
The Tesla stock is the biggest bubble we have ever seen. Short it on the market with the right timing and you will become filthy rich. It will crash, there’s no way they can deliver to this valuation ever… the only question is exactly when. It’s difficult to predict since it doesn’t follow any logical rules in the short term.
It’s simple in its principal, really…
- you have multiple companies
- one company (A) have some supply for some product
- on the other company (B), you create demand for that product (i.e. for its operation)
- thus, under your control, you make company A and B enter a trade agreement
- as someone who brokered that deal, you get rewarded (e.g. from brokerage fee, or commision)
- sometimes, by having a massive increase in sales, the stock for company A would increase, thus you can sell a little bit of it, which you can later buy back after the stock price goes back down
- profit
Some facts:
- even though they’re your companies, you are a separate entity from them, and they are each its own entity
- the money comes from the investors as well as profit, remember that they are separate
- no, you cannot just take all the companies’ money, since even though they’re yours, there are corporate structures and other people at stake preventing that
So you basically come up with some excuse for moving stuff around, then you come up with some excuse to siphon off some of that good stuff.
Fuck that shit. Companies being their own legal entity was a mistake.
The reason why that was done was largely to keep debtors and investors from ripping apart a company and then transferring the debt to the ones running it. This would’ve been back when most large companies were trade companies wherein it made a lot of sense, since if the ship goes down you’re fucked regardless time to liquidate the company and payback who you can.
The actual problem is the stock market since it creates fairy tale bullshit that allows Tesla to exist. Remove the stock market and the individual investments become a lot more risky and make bullshit stocks less likely to exist since all stock would be privately traded and their worth based off of company payout.
keep debtors and investors from ripping apart a company and then transferring the debt to the ones running it
So instead we get “vulture capitalism” as an entire ecosystem of companies, doing this but with more diffuse consequences, by spreading out the bag holders far and wide (but always among the powerless). Fits like a glove with the general “privatize profits, socialize losses” strategy of wealth extraction we like so much.
Corporate person-hood is a stain on humanity and the world. We should never have shifted culpability and direct experience of negative consequences away from human beings, ever.
Can you explain this?
If a real person would be held resonsible… Not even in finance but in breaking the law stuff. Companies only ever get a fine.
He’s Elizabeth Holmes on a global scale. He grifts money from the governments
But wont see jail.
As much as I despise her (as much as the rest of that tech-bros lot), I still suspect she’s only seen jail because she was a young woman.
Finally a good news
Investors largely expected the decline in sales in Tesla’s fourth quarter and full-year results for 2025, and the company beat Wall Street’s estimates for earnings and revenue, sending shares up in after-market trading Wednesday.
Remember, this is talking about profits, not revenue. They’re still making profit. They did shit profits, but it was more than people expected them to make, so shares went up. Fuck Tesla.
Fucking stocks are like gambling. There’s no rhyme or reason to them.
Investors had a general idea of what was going on at Tesla and thought their profits might be down to 20% of what they were last year, so prices went down before Tesla announced their results. Then the results came out. The results were terrible, but not as terrible as the rumours made it sound. So, share prices went back up a bit.
That makes perfect sense. Stocks are like gambling, where a lot of the bets make sense. This is like the odds on a sports game being very long before an injury report is released, and the odds getting slightly better after the injury report is released and it’s not as bad as feared.
Where TSLA stock makes absolutely no sense is the P/E ratio. That’s the price investors are paying for the shares compared to the earnings per share. An old, reliable company that probably won’t grow very much but that has reliably made a steady profit year after year might have a P/E ratio of 5. Tech stocks that might grow a lot in the future might have a P/E ratio of 20 because the expectation is that they have a lot of room to grow, and that in 5 years their revenues and profits might have tripled.
For a typical car company that’s well run, a P/E ratio of about 5-10 is normal. Volkswagen is at about 8, Toyota is at about 10, Ford is at about 12.
Tesla’s P/E ratio is currently 283.38, and its market cap is $1.386 trillion. So, Tesla investors somehow think that Tesla is going to grow to become hundreds of times its current size and/or massively profitable.
So, the day-to-day movements of Tesla’s stock price make sense in the abstract. Investors assuming bad news sell shares, when the news isn’t as bad as feared, investors buy shares. Where they make no sense at all is that the investors are somehow deluding themselves into thinking this tiny car company is about to do something to juice its share price to the moon, like inventing nuclear fusion, or perfecting a time machine.
It’s worse than gambling. When gambling there’s risk and reward, but bad bets are still the responsibility of the player just like bets that outperform. In stocks, if someone makes a bet and/or the company misses their expected returns, the gambler can sue the company. It’s the only gambling where oops, all losses can still result in payoff for the player by fiduciary class-action lawsuit.
I played meme-stocks in 2020-21. I saw that bullshit first-hand, getting half a dozen emails after quarter misses about suing the company over their failure to meet projections. But half of those companies were just getting fucked with because of the influx of idiots like me doing silly shit with their money! I was blown away by that and suddenly started to see how fucked we were to do anything to stop the cancer that unregulated capitalism has become. Infinite growth, impossible in a finite system, is not only expected, but failure to return positive returns could be met with shareholders suing the company for line not go up high enough reasons.
It’s so messed up.
Welcome to the vibe based economy.
I had this exact opinion when Amazon lost less money than expected in 1999. I’m sure people had similar opinions before 1929. This isn’t something new.
EcOnOmIcS iS a ScIeNcE!
“Surely our models are more true than the laws of nature.”
Especially a meme stock like tesla
If the decline was expected, that had already affected the stock price. If you look ONLY at what happens on the day that expectation is finally official, in writing, then yes it’s counterintuitive. But it makes perfect sense that if a huge decline was already built into the price, then that price would rise a little when it’s found out that the decline wasn’t as bad as expected.
Thats how its supposed to work.
That is absolutely not how it actually is working.
So, 2+2= whatever the hype says it is. Got it.
Another way of saying it is that shares had already gone down because this was expected. When it wasn’t quite as bad as expected, they got a little bump back.
P/E ratio is still 280 for Tesla, while it’s like 7 for Toyota. Tesla was valued at like $250 in April and after this report it was almost $450 and not far from all time high. It clearly had not gone down enough.
Ha ha
