hendrik

Oh man, I’m a bit late to the party here.

He really believes the far-right Trump propaganda, and doesn’t understand what diversity programs do. It’s not a war between white men an all the other groups of people… It’s just that is has proven to be difficult to for example write a menstrual tracker with a 99.9% male developer base. It’s just super difficult to them to judge how that’s going to be used in real-world scenarios and what some specific challenges and nice features are. That’s why you listen to minority opinions, to deliver a product that caters to all people. And these minority opinions are notoriously difficult to attract. That’s why we do programs for that. They are task-forces to address things aside from what’s mainstream and popular. It’ll also benefit straight white men. Liteally everyone because it makes Linux into a product that does more than just whatever is popular as of today. Same thing applies to putting effort into screen readers and disabled people and whatever other minorities need.

If he just wants what is majority, I’d recommend installing Windows to him. Because that’s where we’re headed with this. That’s the popular choice, at least on the desktop. That’s what you’re supposed to use if you dislike niche.

Also his hubris… Says Debian should be free from politics. And the very next sentence he talks his politics and wants to shove his Trump anti-DEI politics into Debian… Yeah, sure dude.

I meant both sex and gender. They regularly fail to tell me a lot for my own real life. I like some people and dislike others and it’s easier for me to talk to / work with / collaborate or empathize depending on various circumstances. Personality traits, shared goals… Maybe sharing something or it’s the opposite of that. I believe gender or sex or identity is a bit overrated and so is stereotyped thinking for a lot of applications. Or the need to conform to a stereotype. Dress and identify however you like, make sure to give your children an electronics kit, a plastic excavator and a princess dress… And unless that’s really important for some niche application, don’t feel the urge to look into people’s pants and check what’s in there.

You’re welcome. I mean it’s kind of a factual question. Is gender an indicator on its own? If yes, then the rest is just how statistics and probability work… And that’s not really a controversy. Maths in itself works 🥹

I’d also welcome if we were to cut down on unrelated stuff, stereotypes and biases. Just pick what you like to optimize for and then do that. At least if you believe in the free market in that way. Of course it also has an impact on society, people etc and all of that is just complex. And then women and men aren’t really different, but at the same time they are. And statistics is more or less a tool. Highly depends on what you do with it and how you apply it. It’s like that with most tools. (And LLMs in the current form are kind of a shit tool for this if you ask me.)

Right. If it’s true that women statistically outperform men (with same application documents), it’d be logical to prefer them just on gender alone. Because they likely turn out to be better.

Issue is they probably want to pattern-recognize something like merit / ability / competence here. And ignore other factors. Which is just hard to do.

LLMs reproducing stereotypes is a well researched topic. They do that due to what they are. Stereotypes and bias in (in the training data), bias and stereotypes out. That’s what they’re meant to do. And all AI companies have entire departments to tune that, measure the biases and then fine-tune it to whatever they deem fit.

I mean the issue aren’t women or anything, it’s using AI for hiring in the first place. You do that if you want whatever stereotypes Anthropic and OpenAI gave to you.

Oh wow. 🥹 My idea: Follow the instructions in the green box.

Ah. My instance reports the last activity from lemm.ee from 45mins ago… So that’d be June 30th, 00:14 Estonian time. And the main page forwards to join-lemmy.org now. Looks like the shutdown to me.

Well… it’s 10 before midnight here. I’m pretty sure a bit east from me it’s the 30th already. Not so much in the west. But I don’t know where lemm.ee was located.

It’s 30th of June. Lemm.ee is shutting down now.

https://piefed.social/post/816659

Idk about this. I think the main issue is social media and filter bubbles. Generative AI contributes, but enough fakes news is there anyways. People will also use real riot videos from 4 years ago and claim that’s the LA riots. The Russian troll farms can do this with or without AI. Trump, too. They’ll just come up with drinking bleach is good with their own brains.

I don’t want to refute this. Generative AI accelerates it immensely and makes it easier and way more. But mind that the core of the problem is society, education and most of all social media.

Also this isn’t exactly new, we had Cambridge Analytica since 2014 or something. And manipulating elections and politics by technology is even older than that.

I agree a copyright dystopia wouldn’t be any good. Just mind that wild west or law of the jungle is the “right of the strongest”. You’re advantaging big companies and disadvantaging smaller players or people with ethics or who are more open/transparent.

And I don’t think legality with web scraping is the biggest issue. Sure I maybe could do it if it were possible. But I’m occasionally doing some weird stuff and most services have countermeasures in place. In reality I just can’t scrape Reddit. Lot’s of bots and crawlers just don’t work any more. I’m getting rate limited left and right from all big platforms. Lots of things require an account these days, and services are quick banning me for “suspicious activity”. It’s barely possible to download Youtube videos these days. So, no. I can’t. While Google can just pay for it and have the data.

Also Reddit isn’t really the benevolent underdog here. They’re a big company as well. And they’re not selling their data… They’re selling their user’s data. They’re mainly monetizing other people’s creations.

Well, copyright law is kind of a bit older. When it was written, there was no AI. So it doesn’t address our current issues. It’s utterly unprepared for it. So people need to shoehorn things in, interpret and stretch it… Obviously that comes with a lot of issues, loopholes and shortcomings.

But I can’t follow your argumentation. Why would they get away with this forever? When the car was invented, we also made up rules for cars, because the old ones for horses didn’t help any more. That’s how law is supposed to work… Problems surface, laws get passed to address them. That’s daily business for governments.

And they don’t even get away with stealing this time. That’s what the article says.

If you want to share a pessimistic perspective about governments and mega-corporations, I’m all with you. That’s very problematic. But some regions are better than others. Europe for example had a few clever ideas about what needs to be addressed. It’s not perfect, though. And copyright still isn’t solved anywhere. At least not to my knowledge.

I agree that we need open-source and emancipate ourselves. The main issue I see is: The entire approach doesn’t work. I’d like to give the internet as an example. It’s meant to be very open, connect everyone and enable them to share information freely. It is set up to be a level playing field… Now look what that leads to. Trillion dollar mega-corporations, privacy issues everywhere and big data silos. That’s what the approach promotes. I agree with the goal. But in my opinion the approach will turn out to lead to less open source and more control by rich companies. And that’s not what we want.

Plus nobody even opens the walled gardes. Last time I looked, Reddit wanted money for data. Other big platforms aren’t open either. And there’s kind of a small war going on with the scrapers and crawlers and anti-measures. So it’s not as if it’s open as of now.

Agreed. And even if it were, it’s always like this. Anthropic is a big company. They likely have millions available for good lawyers. While the small guy hasn’t. So they’re more able to just do stuff and do away with some legal restrictions. Or just pay a fine and that’s pocket change for them. So big companies always have more options than the small guy.

Yes. But then do something about it. Regulate the market. Or pass laws which address this. I don’t really see why we should do something like this then, it still kind of contributes to the problem as free reign still advantages big companies.

(And we can write in law whatever we like. It doesn’t need to be a stupid and simplistic solution. If you’re concerned with big companies, just write they have to pay a lot and small companies don’t. Or force everyone to open their models. That’s all options which can be formulated as a new rule. And those would address the issue at hand.)

I’m fairly certain this is the correct answer here. Also there is a seperation between judicative and legislative. It’s the former which is involved, but we really need to bother the latter. It’s the only way, unless we want to use 18th century tools on the current situation.

Keep in mind this isn’t about open-weight vs other AI models at all. This is about how training data can be collected and used.

Previous discussion from yesterday about the same topic: https://lemmy.world/post/31923154

You’re a genius. I hadn’t even thought about that… 🏆