The FBI has been unable to access a Washington Post reporter’s seized iPhone because it was in Lockdown Mode, a sometimes overlooked feature that makes iPhones broadly more secure, according to recently filed court records.
The court record shows what devices and data the FBI was able to ultimately access, and which devices it could not, after raiding the home of the reporter, Hannah Natanson, in January as part of an investigation into leaks of classified information. It also provides rare insight into the apparent effectiveness of Lockdown Mode, or at least how effective it might be before the FBI may try other techniques to access the device.
“Because the iPhone was in Lockdown mode, CART could not extract that device,” the court record reads, referring to the FBI’s Computer Analysis Response Team, a unit focused on performing forensic analyses of seized devices. The document is written by the government, and is opposing the return of Natanson’s devices.
Archive: http://archive.today/gfTg9
Best advertisement I’ve heard for an iPhone ever. Now that Android moving to the same walled garden business model…
GrapheneOS is ~10x more private and secure than iOS.
I want a phone, not a hobby.
Well well well, look who likes using banking apps and tap-to-pay.
All of my banking apps work in Graphene, but yes, some banks apps don’t work, which is why there’s published lists so you can check before flashing.
I have GrapheneOS and use banking apps and tap-to-pay on a daily basis.
I am not in the US, though.
It’s not a hobby.
Don’t confuse Graphene with a tinker box, or some ROM you once rooted.
It’s a professionally polished and very secure fork of Android.
There are some minor limitations with a handful apps that can’t pass their Google specific internal security checks, but there’s lists of them that you can check to see if any are a deal breaker for you.
Discounting some minor comparability issues, the process just requires a computer, an internet connection, a cable, and the ability to read through a couple paragraphs of instruction.
I’ve been thinking about it for a long time. Does the installation wipe everything stored on the phone? I don’t mind installing apps individually, just wondering about files and photos. Also can I run Action Launcher on Graphene?
Set up Immich and move all your photos and videos to it.
You can also run syncthing on your android phone just fine, allowing you to simply mirror everything on it to any file server of your choice.
I don’t know about the launcher, but I do know the that all storage is wiped in the process of switching over.
I’m talking about daily use. I have a good friend, we’ve both been computer nerds since The Apple II era, we both used to put custom roms on our android phones, we’re avid self hosters, etc… He recently switched to Graphene and wants to switch back to something that’s less of a pain. His complaints are pretty much the same as reasons I haven’t switched. I warned him it would be an adjustment.
As someone who uses GrapheneOS with sandboxed GooglePlay on his only smartphone (with daily usage for years at this point): I don’t know what kind of adjustment you are referring to. I never had to adjust to anything, because I never encountered anything that GrapheneOS couldn’t do that stock Android could. Follow the installation process and after that the phone behaves like a regular phone, except you have way more options regarding security and privacy.
Is your friend trying to use GrapheneOS without any Google services maybe?
I had to fiddle with some stuff to get the Google location history and Android Auto working. But if you’re using it for privacy-from-Google purposes you probably don’t care about those.
Edit: also RCS and tap to pay with credit/debit card. Those require your carrier and Google to allow them, respectively.
Correct, I am not using GrapheneOS to then give my data to Google willingly. Kinda defeats the purpose I would say. I think it is the right thing that this is blocked by default and you have to actively turn it on. (Edit: I am assuming that you are talking about the fact that location data gets redirected to GrapheneOS by default, which can be changed in settings)
Is this a country-specific topic? I don’t know anybody who still uses SMS/MMS to communicate. Everybody uses WhatsApp or Signal where I am.
No one enables it to “give Google data”, they use it to get apps to work that use it as a dependency.
RCS is neither.
Yeah, as an example Tmobile / Mint Mobile regularly stop working and require reprovisioning every 36 hours.
Look, there always will be obstacles. Do you have any other carrier option? If yes- change it and tell them why, if not- you’re already fucked and I wouldn’t comply when it’s already that bad. Nothing’s going to get better when doing nothing. My bank wanted to store a picture of my face on their servers to continue using their service so I changed my bank. You need to not be lazy.
I didn’t test every app created but I think you don’t know what you’re talking about. To say GrapheneOS or any similar ROM is unusable for daily driver is wild. What specific usecase do he and you have to be such a deal breaking pain? You could’ve shared what was a pain at least to be helpful for someone. It’s Android with or without Google Play. If this didn’t work for you can just try something else like iodeOS. There is always an excuse.
My own personal experience over the past year with it has… Largely not lined up with that? The install process was easy, I do have gplay enabled but rarely use it, favoring fdroid, and it’s… Been fine? It’s felt mostly like stock android tbh
That’s the same thing stopping me from switching my friends from Linux. I know one of them would if I pushed.
I’ve been daily driving Linux for almost 2 years and also always have a minor issue daily. “Oh. Bluetooth module decided it just didn’t want to work. Better reload. Oh. Reloading doesn’t work? Got to restart. Oh. Now my Wi-Fi has completely crapped the bed and restarts every 5 seconds”.
Then the major issues are catastrophic, even though rare. I once had a system just start… filling up empty storage at a rate of 1 GB a second with an empty log file. I couldn’t figure out why. Ended up reinstalling everything.
I don’t mind fixing these issues. And hell, I have fun, but I’m the only computer guy in our group though so I’d be playing tech support for these people if they ever changed.
But this is different. Linux doesn’t work well on many PCs especially laptops because the manufacturs don’t give the needed drivers and firmware. And on the top of that many programs are built with Windows and maybe macOS in mind. GrapheneOS is not entirely different operating system and is only for Pixels with Google’s own firmware and everything work the same as stock ROM.
What distro are you using? This seems bizarre and the sort of thing you see on a less stable rolling release.
I’ve hopped around. The 3 main ones I’ve touched though are:
All of which are the Stable Versions. I believe Bazzite and CachyOS are both Rolling Releases which would explain the issues. I don’t think Ubuntu is as far as i know which makes it’s storage issue especially interesting.
I also have an issue with Debian on my media server where despite telling it everywhere possible not to go to sleep, it decides it wants to go to sleep anyways. But i don’t really consider that under these same issues because that’s a media server and i expect it to be a little more “Tinkery” than my Main use PCs.
That’s weird. Ubuntu has two tracks, the standard that gets updated every six months and the LTS track that updates every two years. I think the developers recommend the LTS versions, and it’s the version I see that tends to get better corporate support. But even on LTS you can find some oddities sometimes I suppose.
So you haven’t used it yourself and are shitting on an OS based on anecdotal evidence? "Stop making stupid assumptions”, I once heard someone say.
I use GrapheneOS and have helped other less tech-savvy people install and use it. You can just roll with the defaults and have a better privacy stance than the spyware Google puts out, or you can take a deep dive. It works just fine either way.
Hey, you can judge something without using it in some degree in my opinion. I’ve judged iOS and macOS because of their user experience, design and etc based on things I’ve seen and knew. But I didn’t want to spent a fortune just to express my thoughts and end up with something that I don’t like. Now that I’ve used them I hate on them even more. But in this example it seems that this person don’t have enough knowledge about this specific thing and don’t know what they’re talking about.
I’m an experienced technologist (a software engineer for over 30 years), I used to regularly install CyanogenMod on my phones. While I didn’t find the graphene OS installation to be particularly difficult, I did find actually using it to be too much of a challenge to live with every day. The biggest single problem I can recall is that I could not do any group
SMSMMS texts. Many searches and attempts at fixes later, I realized that it was a known bug that for reasons unknown did not seem to affect all users. There were a number of minor annoyances in addition to that bug.That may reflect more on how Google has locked down things on the pixel phones, or other stuff they’ve done to keep things as proprietary as possible in their software and devices. I switched back because it wasn’t worth the hassle to me.
You can’t send group texts over SMS
I’d guess the group chat is stuck sending messages to RCS (basically Google Proprietary) rather than MMS
This is the same problem iPhone users have dealt with for a long time when switching to Android and their number is stuck in Apple’s iMessage system
Corrected to MMS.
That’s odd, group texts works fine on my phone.
My friend tried using it last year and he started getting some super annoying RCS issues that caused him to switch back to iPhone. He was very invested in using graphene but it became too much.
If this was the only big problem and only because of work your friend could’ve buy a cheap second phone only for work. I did that. That way you have privacy and security for your personal life and better convince for work.
I don’t mean to sound callous but if some relatively minor RCS issues, and there’s really no way they could be classified as major, stopped your friend from doing what he set out to do then he wasn’t all that invested in the idea.
I’m not saying there’s no problems with GrapheneOS or any other product helping consumers to change their habits but if you really care about issues like corporate overreach then a little inconvenience isn’t a deal breaker. In fact, it’s to be expected when switching away from mega corporations. They invest tons of money to make their user experience decent so that they can profit off of your data. If you want to get away from that you have to accept the fact that you’re moving away from a product supported by thousands of engineers with billions of dollars to spend towards a product developed by tens of engineers or less with very limited funding. Those developers do a damn good job IMO but a dip in ease-of-use has to be expected.
At the end of the day we all have to decide if we’re going to prioritize convenience or mindfulness. It sounds like your friend made his choice, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with the choice he made, I just think it’s important to put it in the proper perspective.
He was between jobs and could not afford his phone to be unreliable at the time. The RCS issues were messing with all of his group chats, family communications, and more. For him in his situation, it was not minor.
Clearly not that invested because you can just turn RCS off, or use a non-RCS messaging app
He might have had other problems too, I don’t really remember. I just know he was talking about using Graphene for months leading up to him finally getting it and then soon after having issues. And circumstances came up that caused him to unexpectedly be between jobs so rather than stick with a finicky phone that could hamper his employment search he went back to his iPhone. I don’t know all the details, but that’s roughly what happened.
Up voting because you made be lol, not because I agree with you. Been on GOS for over a year, it’s not that bad. A few apps don’t work, it’s only slightly inconvenient.
I’ve used GOS daily for years. Your characterization of the OS as a “hobby” could not be further from the truth. After some basic initial configuration, it simply works like any other phone. My bank app works. Every app they told me would not work, works fine. Honestly, I’m beginning to wonder if all this FUD is a result of personal lack of willingness to do the research or something more nefarious like intentional misinformation.
I was on GrapheneOS for ~6 months as my daily. I agree that for the most part it “just worked”.
However, after the 3rd time RCS messages broke on T-Mobile requiring Google Messages to be reinstalled every 36 hours, I gave up and went back to stock.
If the GrapheneOS devs implement their version of RCS, I’d gladly go back.
Chang your carrier provider with better one.
Using RCS is not worth dealing with a spyware phone in my estimation. And any conversations over SMS can be considered compromised by default. So I do not discuss sensitive or private information over SMS. This leaves one with a device that the Gestapo as of yet has not contrived a way to invade. The existence of any such device horrifies tyrants. They must see all and know all, and we are to trust in their benevolence to Keep Us Safe!™
Safely using an insecure device swiftly becomes a hobby, unless you give in to the default experience.
I installed GrapheneOS, installed my apps, and I’m done. If I want to deny telemetry or to set up something like the duress password, it’s one to two taps.
iPhone users, man… stop drinking the fucking punch.
Nowaday is not just iPhone users. Every major company fucks the consumers over and people defend them like it’s their own company. I don’t get it.
I’m not an iPhone user. I don’t own an Apple anything and really despise them as a company. Stop making stupid assumptions.
Plugging a cable and clicking 5 buttons isn’t a hobby in my opinion, it’s an excuse. After these 5 clicks is just Android. Every app work great even the “normal” propriety apps including banking app without Google Play Services installed. If you’re not willing to do the least this is why people in America and other countries are hunted like animals right now. It’s easier just to whine and do nothing.
Did a lot of looking into it, step 1 for me was always buy a different phone, or try seeing if a different ROM would work, and make the documentation for others…none of which came out to be 5 clicks, and not knowing if my phone will receive calls is a deal breaker if you actually work.
That’s not what you said. But since you did, it’s very easy to install and use. No hobby required.
come onnnnn
this shit is fun!
Literary 4 clicks, so hard 😩
Sigh, how, just how do you quantify that?
sigh you don’t.
So your comment is just fanboy bullshit?
But it’s heavily upvoted fanboy bullshit, the only type of bullshit that flies here
LOL sure
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Android phones have lockdown mode too. Hold the power button to show the shutdown menu and click lockdown.
This is more of “disable face ID” type of thing rather than “lockdown”
joke on you! google’s recent requirement is that all phone vendors make the power button open an AI menu instead of the shutdown menu! on most phones it can be fixed, but it’s often hidden very deep in the settings.
AI will take as to the future shit 🤣 You: Hey Google (or the hell the new assistant names are), I’m beening arrested could you lock donw my phone!" The bot: Sorry, I couldn’t get that. connecting to the ChatGPT/ Gemini servers
They’re not the same. Android lockdown is a temporary lock screen state. iOS lockdown is a full OS hardening, affects the way the phone operates full-time.
Having it and it working as well are two different things. historically Apple has been ahead in security that can slow down or stop law enforcement. And before before you jump to the same conclusions as someone else, I never have owned an iPhone, nor wanted to.
That’s incorrect. Google’s Android has several industry leading security features the iPhone doesn’t support.
That’s… not what they said.
There’s a lot of copium in this thread. Joke is I’ve been pretty hardcore Android since day one, I have never owned an iPhone. I am just capable of some level of objectivity. Shit, there’s podcasts out there from early in the Android v iOS days where I was the token Android guy defending it as the IBM compatible equivalent of its day. Telling these hard core iPhone guys that Apple would lose the market share fight worldwide because of the closed nature, the same way they lost it on the desktop. But yeah, there’s people here denouncing me as an Apple fanboy because I was capable of complimenting a strength it has.
Keep doing it. They all have strengths and suckiness at the same time.
Graphene OS
You can lockdown an Android phone too. At least I can on my Pixel 8a.
That is a misnomer. The android’s “lockdown” is equivalent of on an iPhone pressing power button + up button to bring up the power menu which immediately disables biometrics. It only disables biometrics, doesn’t really “hardens” the phone in anyway.
And the FBI can’t get in? I doubt that. It has always been notoriously easy for law enforcement to get in to Android phones.
GrapheneOS is not the ordinary Android phone.
If someone is worried about the FBI I don’t think that putting trust in a US company who’s CEO has very close ties to the current US administration is a wise idea.
I’d be seeking hardware to run an OS like GrapheneOS. Going with iOS in the US seems as wise as someone in China going with Xiaomi if they are trying to go under the radar of China’s Ministry of State Security.
Obligatory XKCD.
Everyone have different thread model…
Under Kash Patel, I’d be surprised if the FBI could unlock a Mime’s door, let alone a phone.
Haha, very true. Loyalty over competency.
Even if you turned the phone off? It should be secure on a cold boot before entering the password, as nothing is unencrypted yet.
You know, I have not kept up. Things may have improved recently. But historically there’s always been flaws in the security.
And that is the big reason why you should update. It’s a cat and mouse situation. This is the reason why GrapheneOS offer security previews and encourage you to install them.
Yes, that’s advertising allright.